Pasadena Star-News Online
College: Mt. SAC thrown a curve
Course improvements call into question the validity of new marks
October 18, 2001
By Richard Gonzalez
Staff Writer
October, 2000: Glendale Hoover High's Anita Siraki stuns the national prep
cross country community when she breaks the Mt. San Antonio College course
record by a stunning 17 seconds.
November, 2000: Big Bear High's Ryan Hall runs the Mt. SAC course in
14:28, slicing four seconds off Jeff Nelson's 22-year-old boys course
record.
November, 2000: Don Lugo High's Erick Maldonado smashes the sopre boys
course record as five of the six fastest 10th-grade course times in
history are achieved. All told, a whopping 39 revisions are made to the
all-time grade lists.
Oddly enough, these standout runners have enjoyed ample success before and
since, but not quite to the degree achieved recently along the revered
2.95-mile Mt. SAC course.
Well, maybe it's because the course had been shortened to 2.91 miles.
Mt. SAC cross country women's coach Doug Todd has confirmed in three
separate interviews since last November that the course has indeed been
shortened, an end result of safety concerns, course upgrades and
environmental effects.
"We struggled not to make the changes, because the Mt. SAC course and the
meet are so steeped in history," said Todd, who oversees this weekend's
conclusion of the 54th annual Mt. SAC Cross Country Invitational, the
nation's largest.
"Some changes were unavoidable, but it doesn't make accepting the changes
any easier."
The most notable change was reconfiguring a portion of the "Valley Loop"
as a safety matter. With the number of entrants swelling to match the
meet's growth in popularity, maneuvering along the original course's
sharp, jutting turn less than a minute into the race created logistical
problems.
Mt. SAC staff changed it to a sweeping and easier to navigate path, which
Todd estimates cut about five seconds off each loop or 10 seconds per
runner off the double loop. If his estimate is accurate, that translates
to roughly a 50-second team-time (five runners) improvement over
"pre-renovation" years.
Additionally, heavy rains a few years ago caused erosion along some
patches of the course. Throw in the beautification steps imposed in recent
years a wider running path, planting of shade-producing trees along the
route, and considerable landscaping to improve footing and the
once-imposing course becomes a more inviting one.
"We try to respect history and tradition, yet safety becomes a factor too
... a much more important factor," said Mt. SAC men's coach Mike Goff, who
is the one entrusted with the upkeep of the course.
"If course historians have a problem with it, I understand," Goff added.
"At the same time, if we can improve the course to maximum conditions for
runners, that's great, too. Bottom line, the best teams and runners will
still win."
The only drawback now is that the ever-popular time comparisons by
generations of runners might lack integrity, since the course has changed.
It used to be when one California runner would meet another, the first
question was: "What's your best time at Mt. SAC?"
Regardless, the course still offers a tough test to challengers.
"Well, Mt. SAC's been too hot, too dusty, too slow, too crowded, too
hard," said Goff, echoing some critics over the years. "And now... they
say it's too fast. That's a new one."
I've raced VCP and Mt. SAC while in college and Mt. SAC is AT LEAST twice as hard. The hills are huge there. VCP had hills but they were brief and there was a lot of flat sections to rest on (for the 8k course).
I've actually run them both. Mt. SAC is a lot harder! VCP does not have real hills and is more like a sprint! 2.5 miles??? Why so short? That race is literally won in the first 400 meters...Both are fun though!
Mike Mather said: “I know another girl at Columbia from Torrey Pines HS, CA who will run her first race at Van Cortlandt Park on the 30th at the Ivy League Championships. She ran her first time at Mt SAC as a 7th grader, on the 2-mile course, and won it by over a minute and a half. A week later she ran the national jr high meet in Albuquerque, NM and finished 2nd by just 10 seconds. I'm waiting to hear Erin's thoughts from her dad when he gets back from NY.”
Mike,
Because of the construction this year, and this year only, the 5k course has been run differently this year. It is a much simpler course that does not go into the backhills at all. I think they might be running this course at Heps, so she wolnt get to run that course until next year probably.
That being said, most courses you run in HS will seem harder than when you are strong, fitter, smarter, more experiances college runner. Go back and race on courses you thought killed you when you were 15, or 16 and you will probably be shocked at how the hills dont seem quite as long, or steep as you remebered. It may be a little different for guys in college since you are racing on courses twice as long and it is not so easy to compare.
The one thing missing is the crowd. On race day it's a circus! Thousands of runners, tents everywhere, loud speakers blasting away with race announcements and last calls. Try and find a place to stretch and warm up. In a good year it might rain a little and everyone takes a little of Mt SAC home with them at the end of the day!
I know another girl at Columbia from Torrey Pines HS, CA who will run her first race at Van Cortlandt Park on the 30th at the Ivy League Championships. She ran her first time at Mt SAC as a 7th grader, on the 2-mile course, and won it by over a minute and a half. A week later she ran the national jr high meet in Albuquerque, NM and finished 2nd by just 10 seconds. I'm waiting to hear Erin's thoughts from her dad when he gets back from NY.
I coached a girl in high school who now runs at Columbia University. She has run both courses, and has run Van Cortland plenty of times over the years. She says hands down that the Mt. Sac course is the more challenging course.
John and Ryan take a stab at the Mt. SAC XC Course....it was rough.
Flotrack will have LIVE Mt SAC coverage tomorrow and archived video footage of all Sweepstakes and JV National Champs races (both Friday and Saturday). October 22, 2009
Mt. SAC Course Preview
College: Mt. SAC thrown a curve
Course improvements call into question the validity of new marks
October 18, 2001
By Richard Gonzalez
Staff Writer
October, 2000: Glendale Hoover High's Anita Siraki stuns the national prep
cross country community when she breaks the Mt. San Antonio College course
record by a stunning 17 seconds.
November, 2000: Big Bear High's Ryan Hall runs the Mt. SAC course in
14:28, slicing four seconds off Jeff Nelson's 22-year-old boys course
record.
November, 2000: Don Lugo High's Erick Maldonado smashes the sopre boys
course record as five of the six fastest 10th-grade course times in
history are achieved. All told, a whopping 39 revisions are made to the
all-time grade lists.
Oddly enough, these standout runners have enjoyed ample success before and
since, but not quite to the degree achieved recently along the revered
2.95-mile Mt. SAC course.
Well, maybe it's because the course had been shortened to 2.91 miles.
Mt. SAC cross country women's coach Doug Todd has confirmed in three
separate interviews since last November that the course has indeed been
shortened, an end result of safety concerns, course upgrades and
environmental effects.
"We struggled not to make the changes, because the Mt. SAC course and the
meet are so steeped in history," said Todd, who oversees this weekend's
conclusion of the 54th annual Mt. SAC Cross Country Invitational, the
nation's largest.
"Some changes were unavoidable, but it doesn't make accepting the changes
any easier."
The most notable change was reconfiguring a portion of the "Valley Loop"
as a safety matter. With the number of entrants swelling to match the
meet's growth in popularity, maneuvering along the original course's
sharp, jutting turn less than a minute into the race created logistical
problems.
Mt. SAC staff changed it to a sweeping and easier to navigate path, which
Todd estimates cut about five seconds off each loop or 10 seconds per
runner off the double loop. If his estimate is accurate, that translates
to roughly a 50-second team-time (five runners) improvement over
"pre-renovation" years.
Additionally, heavy rains a few years ago caused erosion along some
patches of the course. Throw in the beautification steps imposed in recent
years a wider running path, planting of shade-producing trees along the
route, and considerable landscaping to improve footing and the
once-imposing course becomes a more inviting one.
"We try to respect history and tradition, yet safety becomes a factor too
... a much more important factor," said Mt. SAC men's coach Mike Goff, who
is the one entrusted with the upkeep of the course.
"If course historians have a problem with it, I understand," Goff added.
"At the same time, if we can improve the course to maximum conditions for
runners, that's great, too. Bottom line, the best teams and runners will
still win."
The only drawback now is that the ever-popular time comparisons by
generations of runners might lack integrity, since the course has changed.
It used to be when one California runner would meet another, the first
question was: "What's your best time at Mt. SAC?"
Regardless, the course still offers a tough test to challengers.
"Well, Mt. SAC's been too hot, too dusty, too slow, too crowded, too
hard," said Goff, echoing some critics over the years. "And now... they
say it's too fast. That's a new one."
MT SAC = the hardest, hands down.
“I know another girl at Columbia from Torrey Pines HS, CA who will run her first race at Van Cortlandt Park on the 30th at the Ivy League Championships. She ran her first time at Mt SAC as a 7th grader, on the 2-mile course, and won it by over a minute and a half. A week later she ran the national jr high meet in Albuquerque, NM and finished 2nd by just 10 seconds. I'm waiting to hear Erin's thoughts from her dad when he gets back from NY.”
Because of the construction this year, and this year only, the 5k course has been run differently this year. It is a much simpler course that does not go into the backhills at all. I think they might be running this course at Heps, so she wolnt get to run that course until next year probably.
That being said, most courses you run in HS will seem harder than when you are strong, fitter, smarter, more experiances college runner. Go back and race on courses you thought killed you when you were 15, or 16 and you will probably be shocked at how the hills dont seem quite as long, or steep as you remebered. It may be a little different for guys in college since you are racing on courses twice as long and it is not so easy to compare.
Uni! UHS (University High School!)
The David of Goliath.
Alex Kipperman,Phil Norton, Charles Morgen, Jake Brower, Shy Matsuoka, etc