Brooks Johnson : Speakers & Interviews

I was a photographer back in the 60's through the 70's in Washington, DC. Brooks owned a men's clothing store in the city - I believe Georgetown - during that time. I photographed him in the store.

Two questions, 1] what years did he own the store? and 2] would he like some of the images I made?
vernard r gray,

That comment was in response to this post.

Who says working for a corporation is what everybody wants to do in their twenties? You think all runners have the personality that it takes to work in a cube all day? How boring. There are still good options out there for people who want to start a new career in their thirties. I would say teaching, fire fighting, maybe PT school or dentistry if you are into health. You can always get a master's degree. My cousin worked for four years for a top multinational before being laid off due to the economy. He is effectively off the corporate ladder now. U.S. companies don't and can't give a crap about workers, except for the managerial class, when the economy goes bad. A lot of new graduates now aren't getting fancy jobs either. The way things are now, a lot of us will work until we die so some of us might as well go exploring while we're still young.

I was Brooks' roommate for 1 semester at Tufts College in 1955. I've completely lost touch with him but would like to say hello. Can you kindly give him my e-mail address and ask him to send me his when he has a moment? Mine is If could give me his, that would be fine, of course. Thank you, David

Can you please have Coach Brooks Johnson e-mail me. My parents Alden Wood and Eleanor Wood (Landers) would like to have a chat. my e-mail address is thank you

Until People Like Brooks and other influentials can put more emphasis on Track and continue to promote the sport for more than just once every 4 years, the money will never come to all those that deserve it. There are not enough universities that get the support for track like U of Oregon (thanks Nike) to fill the staduims to even a quarter of capacity of a football game. When the eyes are on the sport, sponsors will come and put down roots and $20 will be covered much like bus rides are covered for minor league baseball teams.

the public cares about drug cheaters ... our sport is going in the dumper because of these cheaters ... and the Africans are NOT showing me where distance running can go!

I agree people really don t care about drugs in sports they just want to be
entertained regardless of the cost. Mr. Johnson is a self made man who
tells it like it is. Instead of us focusing on what he said maybe we should focus
more on how what he said made us feel.

Now watch this: If you really believe that the Kenyans among others are better than us at the middle distances you are incredibly wrong. You see the truth of the matter is that most distance runners fall into the sport as a results of preparing for another sport or simply failing in their sport of choice.
Simply stated our best distance runners are in other sports such as basketball and believe it or not football.

ok, but you still haven't answered my question. how do you suggest we fix this problem? seems like everyone is just generally stating "distance runners need more money"...thats good and all, but there has to be a method by which they obtain more money. It can't just appear out of the clear blue sky. I feel like i keep posting the same thing over and over again without getting a real response from anyone.

heres another way they can obtain more money: by running well enough to earn big prize money at races they enter (both here in the states and overseas)? it is their job after all.

Where is this money coming from? WHERE is this money coming from?? WHERE IS THIS MONEY COMING FROM? WHERE THE HELL IS IT COMING FROM MARK DAMN?

In the 90's U.S. distance running was horrible. Early 2000's, groups started forming to support distance runners. They put money into it. Now U.S. running is competing better. If you can get more money into helping runners train, we will get better. It's really simple, money helps. Money is what drives the Africans to run faster than anyone else. They run good, they get money and can live comfortably. If Flotrack gets more money, they can make the content on the site better. I'm not saying it's bad right now, it's the best running site on the web in my honest opinion. I'm not saying money needs to be taken away from 2:14 marathoners. I'm saying the 2:14 marathoners and everyone near the top need more money.

"If a runner is having a hard time paying 20 dollars to run a track race, I don't think there is enough money. Roland mentioned sponsored runners receiving all the major needs. The problem is that there is not that many sponsored runners and not all are receiving enough for the major living needs . That is the whole point of bringing in more money. Not so Hall and others can wear some major bling. Why should a professional runner have to get a job. Sell didn't work in a shoe store, he worked at Home Depot. That option is no longer there now. The 70's were a different time. Living costs more now. Why wouldn't runners want more money in the sport. It only improves it. I don't see anything negative about it. I'm an average runner at the local races. I have a full time job and train when I have time. But I want to watch the best U.S. runners competing at the top level and money gets them there. There is only a small amount of runners at the top who don't get the money to live comfortably. 2:14 marathoners are not going to win any big races anymore. So that is a moot point."

John, you disproved your own point at the end by saying 2:14 marathoners aren't winning any big races. Thats exactly why there isn't a lot of money in the sport in the U.S. There aren't any distance runners outside of Lagat winning any major championships. So what would be the point of companies to sponsor mediocre athletes out of college. If those guys want to make it they are going to need to get part time jobs. Theres no other way around that. At the same time, guys like Nate Jenkins are living off of scraps, without a part time job, and got 7th at the olympic marathon trials. if you want to see guys like Sell not have to get jobs then you need to take money away from the 2:14 marathoners.
I'm sure we would all love more money in the sport. Who wouldn't. Thats not the argument. Its that there is just no money to be had in the sport. If your a distance runner and you truly love the sport, you can make it happen.

"if you want to put more money into this sport there is an easy solution... put ad's on your site then donate your funds to running groups, or maybe even start you own group."

i couldn't agree with u more, wroland. MARK FROM FLOTRACK DISTANCE PROJECT!!!!

Well said, Mr. Graves

how are "we" going to "get" money and "put" it into running? Like I said before, companies may not be interested in sponsoring a meet or a runner because running is not very popular here in america. What's the incentive for the company to give money to this sport?

another question to consider
If we can't find a lot of sponsorship support then where are we going to find money? Its not like there's a bunch of money hanging around just waiting to be used for something.
Here's an idea:
if you want to put more money into this sport there is an easy solution... put ad's on your site then donate your funds to running groups, or maybe even start you own group.
-Roland

Is 12k a correct figure for a pro runner?

Hey, No Sir, How do you figure TV watching is part of a pro athletes job?

As far as an athlete staying out of the work force for say 7 years. It's all about choices, this thing called life. Yes, you can take a chance of fulfilling a dream, Olympics, or whatever or you can go to work and get your 401K and company match (ha ha). Do many of these athletes end up working for Nike corporate offices or whatever?

Yes, this is our new style dinner table debate! Like the concept that an issue can be presented and then argued from all sides. As long as we keep it relevant, then anyone can put their opinions out for others to validate or cut down. What a great way to liven up one's PB&J;....NOW about the drug issue and who cares etc., Take the example of an American running without drugs against a martian running with drugs.....is it an equal race? Plain and simple, if I were in that mix, I would want the race to be equal on the drug issue. Great interview, by the way. Thanks.

I think this is the exact mentality that is killing our sport.

First, 12k a year, which a lot of athletes get, cannot cover those expenses. Travel is not covered in those contracts.
2nd, What about their future? Lets take a look at someone like Amy Yodder Beggley (if we looked at her situation in a vacume). She graduated in 01 and has been running for 7 years earning basically nothing and she jumps on with Alberto and the nike oregon project but she is not getting paid a ton. She makes the Olympic team, but if she retires tomorrow she will be less attractive to a co. then a graduating senior. She has run for the last 7 years and gotten no work experience. All of her friends have been in the workforce for 7 years moving up the ladder and getting raises adding to their 401k and retirement.
I'm not saying that I would rather be working then make the Olympic team, but why should you have to choose? It just sucks that a lot 2 time olympians will retire worse off with less career options then they had when they graduated college.
Also the best athletes in the world do not work 20 hr a week jobs bc training is a 24hr a day job. Your sleep, your food, your TV watching and your training all are part of the job. Brian Sell is a very rare case.

If a runner is having a hard time paying 20 dollars to run a track race, I don't think there is enough money. Roland mentioned sponsored runners receiving all the major needs. The problem is that there is not that many sponsored runners and not all are receiving enough for the major living needs . That is the whole point of bringing in more money. Not so Hall and others can wear some major bling. Why should a professional runner have to get a job. Sell didn't work in a shoe store, he worked at Home Depot. That option is no longer there now. The 70's were a different time. Living costs more now. Why wouldn't runners want more money in the sport. It only improves it. I don't see anything negative about it. I'm an average runner at the local races. I have a full time job and train when I have time. But I want to watch the best U.S. runners competing at the top level and money gets them there. There is only a small amount of runners at the top who don't get the money to live comfortably. 2:14 marathoners are not going to win any big races anymore. So that is a moot point.

"Runners need money for shoes, clothes, housing, food, transportation, and travel."

If you are a sponsored athlete your sponsor not only gives you a salary but they give you all the gear you need and pay for transportation and travel. so that is a moot point, AC. back in the 70s there were a slew of 2:14 marathoners who received none of the benefits that today's runners do. they were lucky if they got a free pair of shoes.
I've seen runners on my own team run upwards of 100 miles a week including a full class schedule and a part time job. So i dont think its so much to ask for a pro runner to get a 20 hour a week job at say a running store. Its probably better for them mentally as its not so much to sit around all day and just think about your next run. And one of the main reasons brian sell works for home depot is because they have a deal for the development of olympic athletes.

I love the debate, it feels like my dinner table growing up.

AC wrote, "brooks is out of touch if he doesn't believe that people care if athletes are cheating. Never was impressesed with this guy."
Brooks is talking on a macro level. Yes, there are a lot of people that do care about cheaters, but if you look at the three biggest sports in the US and the amount of drug use it proves his statement. MLB and the NFL is full with drug cheats, but they are still the biggest sports in the US and fill stadiums. If people really care about drugs then why are those stadiums filled. For some reason people really care about drugs in track and field. Maybe bc people see it as pure sport....... I don't know.
Do'nt get me wrong bc I care about drugs and I think baseball is a joke with their drug policy, but I think I am the exception rather then the rule...... I still watched the cubs blow it last year so maybe I don't care either.

How many people are out there who have the genetic potential to be world class distance runners, but never even tried running, never thought to try out for the track team, etc.? Can we say the same about possible football or basketball players, maybe not. More money would create attention for the sport and motivate kids to at least try and see if they could be good. Then there would be support for those kids to chase after their dream, thus US distance running would flourish.

That was a great interview guys. He was laying down some hard truths, and judging by the heated discussions below, they are some we are still trying to get a grasp on.

We are privileged to be in a sport where the question of whether or not people are in it for the money isn't a big issue. The money just is not there, so there is not a single athlete that will get into track and field expecting it. That being said, I entirely agree that money is one of the biggest motivators out there. In our society, it is nearly impossible to survive without it. I'm going to venture as far as to say that there is not a single professional athlete that doesn't, at some level, love the sport they are in. What money would do for track and field is it would create the initial draw for many people that might go and try a more "glamorous sport" instead of running, jumping, or throwing.

Roland, I think you don't really understand what runners make and need to survive and be able to train properly to stay on top. Or even just make it to the top. Most don't make 30 grand a year so they have to get jobs. Look at what Brian Sell had to do to be able to train and he is an Olympic runner. Runners need money for shoes, clothes, housing, food, transportation, and travel. I almost forgot, some have families to support. If you pour more money into running, it will help more runners become better. In turn, non-runners will pay attention more when Americans are able to consistently compete with the rest of the world. When you look around the world and see what sports are popular in each country, you'll notice it's usually the sport the country is actually good at. I'm not saying we have bad runners in our country, we have some great ones, but with more money you get more great ones. Look at how much help Rupp gets to be able to train with top notch equipment and coaching. All that is provided to him because of Nike money. People are not going to make running as a career choice, even if it's their lifes passion if they can't even make 30 grand a year. 30 grand a year can't support a family anyway. Trust me. My mom made 30 grand a year and we struggled hard. I had to wear used running shoes all through high school. More money in running makes running better. Flotrack wouldn't exist if they didn't have the money to make it happen.
A couple comments about the interview. For him not to acknowledge that there is a problem with how the relays are chosen is complete ignorance. They prove it time and again that they are not prepared. Another thing. Why does he compare running with golf. Most, not all, golfers have more than enough money to pay for tournaments. Plus they win more money even if there are last. He mentions tiger woods paying to get into tournaments. That's like putting a pennie in the cure cancer jar on the counter at a gas station for the rest of us. I want to talk more about it, but I'll end with this, he is completely backwards on everything.

Great interview by Brooks. We've had this discussion on drugs from that article on Gene Doping, and I agree with him.

Also, MFlo,
good point on the money part of are sport and the posts are interesting.
Here is a link from Matt Taylor a little over a year ago relating to this topic:
http://www.chasingkimbia.com/?p=577

mark,

I was just stating that in general you shouldn't make a career choice solely on the amount of money you'll be bringing in. In my opinion you should do whatever makes you happy, even if that sounds unrealistic. Yeah money plays a big role in our lives, I don't know about you but I'd much rather be happy and enjoy my job and make like 30 grand a year than be a miserable person who hates their job but makes over 100 grand a year.
as far as the sport of running goes, yeah it needs more money overall, but how do you suggest this happens? Why should a company pour more money into this sport than they already do? it's not popular to anyone but the people who participate in it. have you ever met a non-runner who is a track fan? I know I haven't. so why should any companies pour any more money into this sport? where do they benefit?

Completely disagree, people DO care about whether athletes take drugs! I don't agree that drugs keep the sport moving forward whatsoever. Look at cycling these past few years, top guys who were winning got caught and people stopped watching, the ends do not justify the means.

Completely agree with trey, more money could make a huge difference in the quality and the amount of quality in the sport.

Couldn't agree more, Mark and Trey.. and yea I really like seeing these interviews, where important (at times, controversial) questions are asked..

brooks is out of touch if he doesn't believe that people care if athletes are cheating. Never was impressesed with this guy.

oh yeah, great interview... i know i'd like to see these kind of "tougher" questions asked to the people who need to answer them.

do you run because of the money? or does money make it financially easier to chase your goals? is money just a happy side pot that you are eligible for by chasing those life-long goals (like US champs, olympics, worlds, etc)?? or is track and field a means for making a living, paying for your home, getting your kids through college, etc? if you were talented in math or science, would you hesitate about taking a more loathesome job over another just because the salary was great? or would you work for free for your dream job? you gotta pay bills right?

don't get me wrong... the majority, and i mean 95%, of the professional track and field athletes in america don't make enough money, in my opinion, to be eligible for running without loving it. that's not to say the other 5% don't love it, but they're in a different financial situation from the rest of us.
i know plenty of post collegiate athletes who had to give up their dreams because of... you guessed it... money!!! in my opinion, this sport needs more money. more cash would bring out more competition, raise expectations, and raise the overall bar for the sport. when there is more invested, you'll see a much greater return.
times are tough, so we may have to keep waiting.

If you read my comment I say, "Money is not a bad thing, it is one of many things that can motivate people to do great things."

$ is one of the "many things".
With that being said, why can't we compare track to the NFL? While track athletes were getting paid under the table at the Olympics in the 40-70s the NFL player was getting paid big sponsorship deals out in the open and the sponsors were paying for TV commercials and posters in Time Square bc that wanted to make more money off Joe Nammith, then they had to pay him to wear their cologne. In track none of the athletes were allowed to do any of this and NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA all passed track and field bc now it was cool to be a football player bc you got big contracts and got to be on TV. Because Broadway Joe was on TV and "cool" people bought the cologne and the sponsor made a profit. Now the next company wants to get their product out and make a profit so they get the next spunky QB and spend money on him and the cycle continues. Track has always been 3 steps (10-15 yrs) behind the other sports. Finally they allowed track athletes to get paid out in the open, but it is hard to get rid of the brand of amateurism. What does that mean?
Well how many people have told you that they did not know there were professional runners? I know a lot of people do not know that these athletes get paid and that is not a good thing for our sport bc that means the sponsors are not making much of their investment in track athletes. If the sponsors don't get enough bang for their buck they will leave track and there will be no money to run track.
So money is not everything.......... but just like every sport it is a lot.

I can say with 99% confidence that there isn't a runner in America that does it for the money. However, just like anyone else, runners need support. Not sure if you can compare distance running to leagues like the NFL. It's one thing to run a PR so that you can continue to pay the bills, or simply continue to get supported. It's another to run a PR because you need a new Porsche in the driveway. My point is, there is no doubt money is important, but I think it should be generally agreed that runners don't do it for the money. Now I'm sure there are a select few in the U.S. that are making plenty off of running. But if you were to tell me they aren't doing it for the love of the sport, rather for the paycheck, I would have to say "you're full of sh*t, buddy."

I disagree, Machado. I'm sure if you asked professional football players why they played, I don't think they would say it was for the money. While I'm sure that's an excellent bonus and motivation for them, there has to be a love for the game to keep you going day after day. However, money does bring with it a lot more attention to the sport. This "attention" is what could be really great for our sport.

The runners I admire are frankly the ones that arn't motived by money, but by the desire to excel for many other reasons. And a perfect example I can offer is Jenny Barringer! Also Andy Wheating of Oregon. There is so much joy associated with these athletes success and it has nothing to do with cash flow!

Unfortunately, we have little control over who our children look up to. Regardless of what we preach to them, kids are going to look up to people in the public eye, i.e. celebrities and athletes. I would rather that my daughter look up to an athlete rather than just a beautiful person, who otherwise represents nothing else. Hopefully there are prominent runners/athletes out there who can be those good role models and promote a healthy, active lifestyle for the next generation.

I don't know Mark,

Money shouldn't be the reason that someone wakes up at dawn every day to get in that extra run in the morning, and for most people that isn't the case. If money is what is motivation great athletes to do great things than why do we call it a sport, isn't it just an occupation? Nothing more than something you do to garner enough funds in order to do something fun with your time? Of course the sport needs money to keep going just as you car needs gas to moving, but, it shouldn't be the motivation behind the sport. If money were to be the defining factor of the sport then why go to the Olympics? Why run in college? Yes, shoe companies make money off of the sport and the athletes who run for those companies should be entitled to due compensation. Say track and field was "all about the money" and the only reason a runner would dig deep inside to pull out that extra two percent on the track or wake up two hours earlier would 99% of us still be running?

I totally disagree with Brooks. People DO care if athletes are taking drugs in sports.

Is he still married to deann or did he trade her in for a youger model?

Looks like Kevin came in trying to bust up Brooks, but put him in his place.

Roland,

If it is not about the money then no sport would survive. I think that mentality has held our sport back. For some reason people associated with our sport make it out as a bad thing to get paid for running. If there is no money in the sport then no shoe companies will sponsor athletes and basically the sport is dead. Football is all about the money and since people can make a lot of money off the sport there is innovation, which leads to an amazing product. Money is not a bad thing, it is one of many things that can motivate people to do great things.

the guy is absolutely right. it shouldn't be about the money.

Can I nominate it for the Best of '09?

Great Stuff Kev!

I agree that we need more interviews like this.

Excellent!

Yeah, he definitely pimp slapped the interviewer with the paying into meets question.

Great interview. As for Flo jo, I don't think that her record will be challenged for a very long time. That was a super human performance. I agree with the his response to drugs though.

his comments on drugs seem spot on. he is saying it's not necessary. however, he does seem bitter. :)

strange interview?.....I felt sorry for the coach because it was my impression the questions were geared to trip up the coach, but he answer most of them very well. To bad.....

what does he mean drugs show us where athletes can go??? who the hell has run as fast as Flo-Jo???